Grenades and airsoft A few thoughts to consider!

[IconarmsDealer]

Many of players have one form or another of Grenades, some are simple Foam or plastic replicas, while others have Gas (tornados), electronic sound or Co2 Bangers. Also we have the M203/Rpg rounds. The practical use of any of thes that do not emit BBs is questionable simply becuase its hard to get folks to call the Grenade kill. Using any type of grenade be it hand thrown or Fired (M203) is hit or miss. I have made ,many Grenade kills and was glad that there was an Honorable player on the receiving end....most of the time!
but On other occasions I have not been so lucky...
"I was behind a bush/ wooden pallet or fence"- Nope your dead!
" I didnt see it"- Case by case
"I have body armor on"- Ok your torso is in great shape, but you have no arms, legs or a head
"My self and my team mates always have Grenade, and when we deploy them it is with a Loud " FRAG OUT"

The Kill range of a real Grenade is about 15 meters or 48 feet. and in air soft is reduced to 3 meters 9.75 feet.
I beleive that if a Game is being hosted under the MILITARY SIMULATION heading that Grenade kills should be more strictly enforced.And the kill range increased for more realistic play.
Expand the Kill range of hand thrown Grenades to 18 feet in the open. M203 12 feet,and In CQB any greande tossed/or fired into a room kills everyone regardless of room size. M203 hit to any Vehicle is a kill (crew considered alive)
Only a Solid obstical is protection-If you can see through it thats concealment, Not cover!

Game staff should be on the lookout for these situations---Icon

[KileyHAZ]

Rules seem to have some variance at different events. Personally I got for a 15 foot kill radius on a hand thrown and 20 foot on a rocket propelled. I also use the 'room kill' clause you point out when I play in CQB. So far I have had pretty good results in getting honorable players.

Personally, I'd like to see national events get a more solid baseline rule since we would want to use that but right now it varies pretty widely.

[Exarach]

Heres a good one, only action grenades count, if you throw a rubber or foam grenade at me, its a rock, and it will be ignored.

Rockets are ok, because anyone can see one of those coming at you, and hear the gas pop when fired.
Not to mention if one hits you.....

[IconarmsDealer]

Heres a good one, only action grenades count, if you throw a rubber or foam grenade at me, its a rock, and it will be ignored.
Rockets are ok, because anyone can see one of those coming at you, and hear the gas pop when fired.
Not to mention if one hits you.....

well I dissagree with "Only action grenades counting" , and show very poor sportsmanship. How many people have action/Gas powered grenades as opposed to Foam? A tornado is $100.00 No thanks!
I think if the game host sets the rules to allow Inert/static replicas then ALL players even YOU would be required to call them as a kill, or be called out as a cheat!
Now Exarach If you would like to come to a Private 49Th game....I have some nades for you...that you hear, and feel! Ask anyone who has attended one !

It is all about Honor here. There is a reason its called MIL-SIM And the 49Th and at least one other TAC team have tactics based on the use of Grenades.

[ultimentra]

Scott has a good point here, not everyone has the cash for action grenades. If Combat Challenge wants to make only action grenades their rule, then thats Combat Challenges deal, not ours.

I think what scott is asking for in terms of rule changes is the following-
-Changing of kill radius/diameter for Grenades and Rockets to a more realistic value for TAC events and pickups
-Changing of rules for grenades tossed into a room (like for instance, one of the "rooms" in the bunker at SASCO) into an instant kill for all inside the space.
-Increase strict enforcement of these grenades rules at TAC events and pickups.

[The Honey Badger]

I use foam frags at pick ups and have gotten tons of kills with them... only ever had one time that the hit was not called but it was a pretty legit sight issue. I don't care either way on the subject. If we are "live" or "inert" its cool with me.

[IconarmsDealer]

Well said.
And to be clear the majority of TAC regulars do infact call these kills. Mainly becuase they themsleves use the Grenades to good effect for their own teams.
Until such time as Pyrotech type Grenades are accepted by organizations Foam /Electronis Nades will be the mainstay of engagements where Nades are used- It is not asking to much to call said hits.
If at some point Gas powered grenades become cost effective then we can revisit this issue, until them Game Staff should pay extra attention to Grenades kills. FRAG OUT!

[The Honey Badger]

Thunder B's are not bad cost wise... $50 ($35 for the Thunder B kit and a buck a piece for the C02 cartridges) will get you 12 shots initially and $25 (12 shells @ $15 + C02) gets you 12 more. They can be difficult to maintain though with the dulling of the firing pin that often occurs.

So around $4 each for the first 12 and a little over $2 each for everyone after. If you limit your Thunder B nade chuckin to 1 or 2 a day you could get a couple months worth out of a replacement shell order.

[IconarmsDealer]

I like them!

Hakkotsu Thunder B CO2 "Distraction Device" Airsoft / Paintball Simulation Grenade Package (Grenade + 12 Shells)

Package Includes
1) Grenade shell set with 12 extra shells
2) Fire lever / Grenade Spoon
3) Safety pins

Each shell is one time use. Spare shells are available at great prices. (Please recycle the shells after usage)

Spare fire lever / Grenade Spoon and pin also available at great prices. Each fire lever lasts about 20+ use.

When not loaded with a CO2 cartridge, the thunder B is a very nice decorative and a bb holder.$35.00

Additional Core $22.00
Package Includes: Aluminum CO2 cartridge housing, Core Cap w/ Fire Lever, Rubber Core Bushing, Metal Washer/Spacer, 2x Safety Pins


Of all the Gas nades Id say these are the most cost effective, but if you want more than one active device You are at about $70.00 buy in.And an additional $22.00per nade . So the standard issue 4 Greandes is 100.00. Gas and casings not included. I have seen/heard thes in action and they are impressive.But again if they dont call it then it dosent matter if it blows or not...and thats really what the point was of my post. A lot of players just cant swing that coin,so As players we should do our best to play with honor and call the hits, as Game staff we need to pay better attention to Grenade calls.

[Exarach]

People can give me all the shit they want.
Only grenades that make a sound on detonation should be allowed, here's why:

1. Prevents anger/ disagreements over whos out, weather or not the grenade went off on what bounce, ect.
- When you throw a grenade, and nothing happens, thats not a grenade, thats a dud.

2. It makes the game much more realistic, and enhances the overall theme of play. Good hit outs. Loud bangs, fun!
If you want to throw around a foam ball, go play with a nerf gun.

3. Fairness for both sides, I guarantee if you accidentally bounce a thunder b back on you, or one goes off while your trying to cook it, you are out, and you are calling yourself out. I cannot count how many times I have seen some idiot bouncing a foam grenade back or dropping it, and then just picking it up again and throwing it.

4. PROPER GRENADE USE-
This one is 100% People misuse foam grenades all the time. If it was a live grenade, you would be dead many times over. Also, a huge one, people don't properly use foam grenades. A grenade is thrown, people call out, the guy goes and picks it up again, and immediately re-throws. Its not a damn fishing pole, there supposed to be grenades.

-A few people disagree with me on this, but we are seeing more and more games start to only have active grenade rulesets. It improves the game, and the quality of the user. When you only have one or two grenades, you are going to use them wisely, aim carefully, and generally not be a tard.

With a foam ball, people re-throw them like candy, and attempt to enforce there rules on others who are unwilling to spam grenades. Foam grenades are the equivalent of spray and pray is AS.

The one everybody likes to get there feathers in a bunch for is a main point, I honesty believe if you are unwilling to take responsibility and go spend the price of a take out dinner for a decent system live grenade, upgrade it and maintain it, and observe proper grenade techniques, which there is no way to do with a foam ball, (And honestly, there users never would) then you shouldn't be throwing grenades in Airsoft.

My current setup, twin thunder b's, have indeed required a little bit of tinkering and upkeep, but they have provided hours and hours of untold fun, and honestly, just having them on me, gives me such a great feel over a foam replica. It feels real, it looks real, it SOUNDS real, just carrying that around greatly increases my mil-sim experiances. So far they have cost me less than my old foam rocket setup.

No one can use the cost excuse anymore, live grenades can go for less then $5 used, and as low as $16 new (admittedly, the water ones are lame, but still a valid point.)

People get all butthurt when they throw a grenade, and nobody sees it, or hears it. Next time try throwing something someone will give a damn about, they will call a live action grenade.

Leave foam to the nerf players.